Mari Carmen Aponte on Biden and Bukele

(EN ESPAÑOL AQUÍ)

 

Karen Fernández, from FOCOS TV, interviewed former Ambassador Mari Carmen Aponte. They talked about Joe Biden’s campaign, the situation for Salvadoran migrants and the relationship of current Ambassador Johnson with president Nayib Bukele.

 

I just want to clarify one point, in recent decades in the region, the United States has always prided itself on defending democracy and the separation of powers, but in the case of El Salvador, Ambassador Ronald Douglas Johnson seems very close to President Bukele and there are no strong positions of the attacks that the president makes on those who criticize him. Does this represent a political decision by the White House?

All ambassadors when we serve have instructions, we cannot necessarily do what we want. We have a constitutional obligation and duty to represent the President of the United States, I do not want to judge Ambassador Johnson because I do not know what pressures he has, or where he has them. Ambassador Johnson is a good person, but I think there are limits for President Trump. And the limits are everything that has to do with immigration, yes once El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico control undocumented immigration and they do not reach the United States, then we do not see, we do not hear. That, I assure you, is not going to be the same position of President Biden, not at all! And we already see, every day more clearly, the signals that come from Biden if he is elected president.

 

Let’s talk then about how President Biden’s position would be expressed in the region. The governments of El Salvador and the United States signed an agreement last year for our country to receive asylum seekers in the United States, which was known as a safe third country agreement. Do you see a Biden administration maintaining this kind of arrangement?

I do not see it. I’m not saying they are not going to exist. What I am going to suggest is that an agreement that is only based on immigration is not going to be of much value to President Biden and his administration. What does have value is a wide range of policies, that the rule of law, the Constitution and civil rights are respected; that there is also development and that a series of policies are made and promoted within the country to stimulate economic growth, employment and education, because what we are looking for is that Salvadorans, Guatemalans and Hondurans do not have to emigrate without documents because they see that they have some hope of moving forward in their own countries.

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The former security secretary was also in San Salvador to sign a cooperation agreement that sought to prevent irregular migration flows from the region. One of the actions to follow up on that agreement was the creation of a border patrol in El Salvador. Would an eventual Biden administration stop pursuing this goal of curbing irregular migration?

Let me be clear, stopping undocumented migration would also be a goal for the Biden administration, there is no doubt, but the way to stop it is going to be totally different and it is going to be much broader. It will seek more cooperation with the countries of the northern triangle, I am sure; but it will also demand that countries do more, that they invest more money from their own budget in education, in economic development. In other words, the United States cannot do everything, it has to be like a partnership with different countries. And I also believe that corruption will be reduced. The problem of corruption in Latin America and well here, in the United States, is great too. But it is necessary to look for and establish institutions that can help to control this corruption.

 

Let’s talk about what happens in the United States, there are some figures that could suggest that for the interests of Latino workers or families without documents in the United States there is no difference between a Democratic and a Republican administration. For example, deportations in 2012, in the Obama administration, reached record numbers that the Trump administration does not exceed. What would you say to those Latinos who compare these figures with dismay?

The biggest difference is going to be the internal immigration proposal that President Biden is already making if he were to be elected. One of the most important things he’s going to do is bring these 12 million undocumented people out of the darkness. They have been undocumented for many years, they have been working with fake Social Security. You have to encourage them to go out, tell the whole truth, and establish a process where they can work and enjoy the life they came to seek in the United States. That is a big difference! Right now that is not even contemplated.

 

 

You also said, now what we see from the White House with regard to El Salvador is an attitude of not seeing, not listening, not being alarmed. However, this attitude of the White House and Ambassador Johnson contrasts with the tone of a letter that Republican congressmen have sent to the government of President Bukele. Do you think there are conflicting positions on President Bukele within the Republican party?

I think there are a number of concerns about President Bukele’s actions and they have been voiced in both parties: in the Democrat and the Republican. If there is a change of administration, as I think there will be and there will be in the Senate and the House. I think we’re going to see more breadth of Democrats in the House and Democratic dominance in the Senate. There I believe that conversations with President Bukele would begin in which we would have to talk about the content of those letters that were made public. That is where El Salvador’s new ambassador to the United States is going to be key. In other words, she has to start a series of frank conversations where all the cards are put on the table and reach agreements. Agreements can always be reached! Just because conversations are difficult, it does not mean that agreements cannot be reached.

 

Precisely speaking of the three letters that President Bukele has received in 2020. The first after the military intervention of the Legislative Assembly on February 9; and then the last ones, of September, the president has referred to these letters with a bit of disdain and has said that they are small groups of congresspeople, but we know that the allocations of cooperation funds pass through the Chamber. What impact could these congresspeople have on this relationship between the United States and El Salvador?

It is very important, because especially in the Senate there is a mechanism called “hold” A senator is the one who has to put a hold on a law or appointment and that is frozen. That is frozen until the issues around the hold are resolved! If it is not discussed and not resolved, it remains frozen. I mean, there are tools available, especially for Senators. For the representatives too, but in the Upper House, one of 100 who opposes it is a very serious matter. I’m sure President Bukele feels that way because he understands that he can make these arrangements. He is probably right, he is going to have to seek agreements, because if not, this is not going to be successful. I believe it can be done, but it will require political will on the part of President Bukele and the Biden administration.

The Trump administration announced that they were no longer going to renew the Temporary Protected Status Agreement (TPS), would a new administration have a chance to reverse this decision?

I think so. And Vice President Biden has said there is a need to analyze one by one all the countries that were granted with the TPS, but I suspect that the trend is going to be to regularize them through a process of equity. Here the key is fairness, that one person does not have more or less advantages than others who are in the same position. Make it fair. I think we are going to see this, because it is the trend.

 

 

You can read the full interview (IN SPANISH) here.